The Preterist Blog ~ 100% Hyperpreterist Free|we can haz rezurekshun?

Hi guys

I am working through Brian Simmons’ “50 Failed Predictions for Fools Who Say Christ Returned in AD70.”

Brian’s contentions are here. The link to my posts is here.

One warning: unlike most partial preterists, I do believe the imminent texts concerning resurrection were actually imminent. Rather than handing the game to the hypers, I believe this disarms them. There are two resurrections, and neither is figurative in my estimation.

You might not agree with that particular issue, but there should be lots that is interesting and helpful.

Feel free to leave comments or questions.

Kind regards,
Mike

Andrew Perriman of opensourcetheology.net was recently interviewed by a hyperpreterist about Andrew’s views on eschatology (”endtimes”).  During the interview it became apparent that the interviewer was constantly trying to associate Andrew’s views with his own.  By the end of the interview, Andrew appeared to be a little annoyed with the interviewer’s constant appeal to his own sectarian views.

The interviewer holds a belief which is commonly called, “Hyper-Preterism” — it is called hyper not as a derogatory term but as a technical & grammatically accurate term since “hyper” is often used in theology & sciences to indicate a position that goes beyond the intent & scope of the original — such as “Hyper-Calvinism” or “Hyper-Inflation”.

Thus, we should begin our inquiry with what Preterism is in its original form.  First off, Preterism as a term is of fairly recent usage, but as a concept it is as old as Christian interpretation (source) since most of Christianity has held to the historic & original form.

HISTORIC PRETERISM

The historic form of preterism perhaps is best summarized by saying it is a view that advocates that most of the Olivet Discourse (Mt 24/Mk 13/Lk 21) was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem & the Herodian Temple in the year AD70. Since the early 1980s, more & more Reformed/Calvinistic Christians were utilizing the label of “preterists”. (Kenneth Gentry, R.C. Sproul Sr., Hank Hanegraaf & others)

HYPER-PRETERISM

Hyper-preterism can be traced to perhaps the early 1800s at the earliest (source) but its modern expression started in the early 1970s with a “church of Christ” minister named Max King.  In King’s biography, written by his son Tim King, Max King is even considered the “founder” of the “fulfilled” view (source).  The label has gone through several transitions with perhaps its first being “Covenant Eschatology”, then “Consistent Preterism”, then “Full Preterism”.  The King faction eventually moved away from those using the label of “preterism” & have since actually trademarked a term they call “Transmillennialism(tm), yes they actually trademarked a term. What is amazing is the interviewer had actually at one point tried to personally trademark the term “preterism” (source)

The King faction even agrees that the label of “preterism” actually belongs to the Reformed group mentioned in the above account of Historic Preterism.

“Preterism is essentially a subset of Reformed Postmillennialism. Full Preterism as a term was not in common use until the early-90s when a handful of Reformed Presbyterians started using the term.” (source)

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HISTORIC & HYPER-PRETERISM

As stated in the section about Historic Preterism, it does not differ from historic Christianity except that the label is rather new in usage.  Just like ALL of historic Christianity, Historic Preterists AFFIRM the 3 major eschatological events as yet future to us; (1) the yet future return of Christ (2) the yet future resurrection of the believers (3) the yet future judgment of the wicked & righteous.  It can be shown that on these 3 points, there is UNITY among ALL expressions of historic Christianity be it pre-Roman Catholic Christianity, Roman Catholic Christianity, Greek Orthodox Christianity, Syrian/Aramaic Christianity, Protestant/Reformed Christianity, Anabaptist Christianity, Modern Evangelical Christianity & I’d suspect even most of the Emergent/Postmodernists.

Whereas, Hyper-preterism DENIES some or usally all 3 of these historic Christian doctrines.  Hyperpreterists advocate:

• 1) That Jesus came back once & for all in the 1st-century
• 2) That the resurrection of the believers happened in the 1st-century
• 3) That the judgment of the wicked & righteous happened in the 1st-century

This is in contradiction to how Christians have interpreted the Bible for 2000 years.   When asked how this can be, hyperpreterism MUST insert one of 3 possible answers: 1) that there has been a 2000 year conspiracy where the supposed truth of their doctrine has been silenced. 2) that 2000 years of Christians were just too dumb to understand basic eschatology 3) that there was a 1st-century rapture/removal of all true Christians & no one was left to record the supposed return of Christ & other events hyper-preterists claim happened.

All of these theories undermine Christianity’s integrity at the core.  If God is not sovereign enough to maintain at least the basic beliefs within His Church throughout history, then maybe the Mormons & JWs & Muslims are correct when they claim they are the restored expression of God’s plan.

PRETERISM & EMERGENT ESCHATOLOGY

This is a new term to me, something I think Andrew is trying to put forth.  But I bring it up here as it relates to the interview.  During the interview, the interviewer was constantly making references to “Preterists” & “Preterism” yet making no distinction between the historic form & his “hyper” form. He could have at least called it “Full Preterism” or something to clarify the distinction.

The interviewer even appeared to insult Andrew when he asked: “Some people are wondering, is then anything new at all about an Emergent eschatology, or is it just “Preterism re-imaged?”

Whatever Andrew’s concepts of an “Emergent eschatology” may be, there was enough in his comments to show it is NOTHING like a HYPER-preterism re-imaged.  During the interview, Andrew stated: “…the essential missional vocation of the people of God, which is to be a renewed creation in the midst of the nations and cultures of the earth, having the hope to which the resurrection crucially points that ultimately even death will be defeated in a final act of judgment and renewal…When the final enemy is destroyed, there will be no more need for Jesus to reign as king over his vulnerable people, and the kingdom will be given back to the Father (cf. 1 Cor. 15:24-26). What follows that is not kingdom but new creation.”

As you can see Andrew’s concepts of an Emergent Eschatology has NOTHING in common with hyperpreterism yet the interviewer seems to ignore this & continued to press his not so hidden agenda of marrying hyperpreterism to Emergent/Postmodernism & even says:

“I personally see a strong possibility of Preterism and Emergent/Emerging eschatology becoming eventually synonymous. Do you think this is a possibility, and is there enough space for all of us to learn from each other and grow together?”

This is another insult & complete disregard for what Andrew is putting forth.  Notice also the last sentence where there is this not so subtle plea to have hyperpreterism seen as valid & sit at the theological table with historic Christianity.

Andrew concludes the interview upon being asked if he has any “words of wisdom for [his] Preterist readers”.  He responds:

“Yes, though more of a question, and it may come across as rather impertinent - so I apologize. I would ask why they need to identify themselves specifically as ‘Preterist’ readers? I would ask them to consider what theological battle they understand themselves to be engaged in.“

An astute observation Andrew, hyperpreterists are “engaged” in the “battle” of legitimacy.  They are doing all they can to put forth themselves & their views as legitimately Christian even though historic Christianity has NEVER advocated ANYTHING like what hyperpreterism advocates — not even the worst of sectarian groups have gone as hyper outside of Christianity as hyperpreterism.

Anyhow, thank you for the interview.  It was very informative on many levels.

^{source link to the interview: http://planetpreterist.com/news-5564.html  — Warning, this is an avid hyperpreterist site.}

Part three of the butt-whupping

Brief summary: This is part three of a somewhat humourous critique that I will be doing on the audio version of Left Behind by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. However, this episode is much more serious than the prior episodes as I discuss a potential heresy contained in the book.

How do you plan to maintain this site after the rapture?

I have no master plan for maintaining Rapture Ready all the way through the seven-year tribulation. After the big event takes place, I expect RR to last several months. After all, the internet was designed to survive a nuclear war. It should be able to survive the great catching up of all believers.

It is unlikely any one domain will be able to service the massive traffic surge that will be directed at all prophecy sites. The best hope for achieving enough bandwidth to allow for millions of people to view Rapture Ready’s content is for tribulation saints to mirror the site dozens of times.

There are already several sister sites listed on the link pages ( i.e. raptureready.net, raptureready.org, raptureme.com rr-rapture.com, tribulation.us, and anti-antichirst.org) that have the source pages. An easy way for people to mirror RR would be to create domains like Raptureready1.com, Raptureready2.com, or Raptureready3.com.

Another way to disseminate the site would be to copy the pages onto CDs. This method lacks the worldwide reach of a web server, but it has the advantage of being free from any efforts by authorities to block all sites related to Bible prophecy.

Have you all made your CDs?

One question that always stumps hyperpreterists, even though they have tried to come up with answers is the question of how did 2000 years worth of Christians miss Jesus’ supposed 1st century return?  How did they miss the resurrection of the believers?  How did they miss the judgment of the wicked & righteous? — after all, no Christian immediately after the AD70 destruction of Jerusalem or the Temple claimed the things hyperpreterists claim today.  Here are 4 ways hyperpreterists typically try to answer this question:

#1 They will cite the Reformation as an example where Christianity was radically altered in form. Yet, if you look at the history of the Reformation, you see that the Reformers did NOT part from historic Christianity but rather used it in conjuction with Scriptures to prove THEY were holding to the historic Christian belief & the Papists had departed. As a matter of fact, the Reformers immediately penned various documents & confessions that lined up with historic Christian beliefs. Hyperpreterism can not make this claim, it is UNLIKE ANYTHING in the history of Christiainty. Hyperpreterism’s attempt to associate itself with the Reformation is like homosexuals who often try to associate themselves with the liberty/civil rights cause of black people. It is illegitimate to try to piggy-back on legitimate issues.

#2 Hyperpreterists will sometimes claim some sort of giant conspiracy took place, such as a first century rapture wherein all supposed “first-rank Christians” were removed from the planet, leaving behind only “second rank Christians” to develop the Church. From this, we are supposed to conclude that the “second-rank Christians” had terribly missed the truth. Not only does this do horrid things to soteriology (were second-rank Christians only partially justified/sanctified???) it STILL undermines God’s sovereignty & plays right into the hands of cultists who claim “new revelation” all of the time. If we believe hyperpreterism, we might want to reconsider Mormonism or perhaps even Islam which both claim to correct Christianity.

#3 Progressive development or “seed form” is another way hyperpreterists claim people have missed their beliefs all these years. Hyperpreterists will scour historical theological writings for anything that remotely sounds like hyperpreterism & claim it as a “seed form” of their belief. They will claim, not until about 1990s has hyperpreterism reached a wide-spread development. Again, an illegitimate & dishonest approach.

#4 Along with any of the 3 above reasons hyperpreterists give, is this one — They will claim that the Church has never had a council on eschatology & therefore they will present eschatology as the last unsettled issue within the Church. This claim misunderstands a few things. a) That councils were NOT called to impose some NEW doctrine upon the rest of the Church but rather councils were typically called when some NEW heresy sprung up against what was already accepted among the Church. The Church would seek to clarify & solidify the already accepted belief. This is then, actually more PROOF that the Church has long been unified on exactly the very 3 things hyperpreterism denies in its 3 premises. b) That historic Christianity has had an unified eschatology for nearly 2000 years. Despite the variations, ALL of historic Christianity has held to exactly the 3 things hyperpreterism denies, thus no council has been needed since no heresy ever rose up opposing those things. It may reach a point, that the heresy of hyperpreterism causes the Church to get together to denounce hyperpreterism. (It should start with individual Christians, such as yourself, opposing hyperpreterism where ever it springs up)

Conclusion

Hyperpreterists are desperate to make themselves appear legitimate.  They are desperate to make themselves appear to be just another kind of Christian.  The truth is, while a person believes in & advocates hyperpreterism, they are as backslidden as if they had fallen into Mormonism or JWs or even Islam.  Only God knows if ultimately the person was NEVER a Christian in the first place, but one thing is for certain — while a person is embracing hyperpreterism, we should NOT be treating them as if they are Christians anymore than we’d extend that fellowship to a Mormon or a JW.  I am NOT saying we need to be rude or mean to hyperpreterists, but that we should certainly spend any interaction with them, telling them they need to repent of their heresy.

The Rapture Index as of 9/1/08 is 161, down two points from its 8/18/08 score of 163. If only unemployment didn’t drop and more kids would use drugs, Jesus could return. Sucks for us.

Also I am not quite sure what this warning page means:

Oh great, now you’ve done it. You’re complete lost.

You better go back to the RaptureReady.com home page and start over.

May God bless English teachers.