Former Hyperpreterist Todd Dennis
Filed Under (Uncategorized) by Roderick_E on 20-12-2008
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Todd Dennis was perhaps the main progenitor of hyperpreterism on the Internet. Starting in 1996, he had amassed the largest “archive” of preterist & hyperpreterist materials anywhere. Many of the now popular hyperpreterist websites had to directly lift material from his website to jump start their own.
In 2006 Todd was one if not the first modern hyperpreterist to renounce that false teaching & instead of going away quietly like hyperpreterists tell us to do, Todd seeks to undo some of the damage he directly & indirectly caused in the lives of others.
I want to here, publicly apologize & ask Todd forgiveness for so rudely opposing him while I was STILL a hyperpreterist. To use the vernacular of the 20-30 something crowd associated with the hyperpreterist movement, I want to say, “Todd is one brave dude!” He has had to endure (sometimes alone, except for Christ), the barbs of former hyperpreterist friends who have done everything from claim he is suffering from emotional problems to saying the only reason he left hyperpreterism is due to a personal issue. They don’t seem to want to realize that people can & do leave the cult because they realize it is a cult.
Todd has recently issued a challenge to hyperpreterists (he calls them “full preterists” so that they may receive his words a bit more readily):
“If you are of a full preterist mindset, and are hiding your views from your pastor, what good are you doing for your church or for the body of Christ? Don’t put yourself above the church. If it is the truth, then so be it: come clean and be willing to take a stand. If you are in a position of leadership, then you have all the more reason to be up front and honest. Otherwise, how long do you intend to wait? Until you have secretly converted the entire church to full preterism (as if), or until you can secure enough people to split the church over your hobby horse end times position? Now is the time to be honorable and to come clean.”
Todd seems to realize that hyperpreterism operates more like Romans 16:17-18 & Jude 1:4). But what Todd has embarked upon lately is to chronicle as he says, “the many shocking & unbiblical statements coming from the full preterists”. And let it not be compared that non-hyperpreterists do often make such statements as well — we’re talking about ratios here. For every 1 out 100 non-hyperpreterists making such statements, there is probably 8 out of 10 hyperpreterists making such statements & behaving with a corrupt character.
Todd started a page to examine the “regressive doctrine of hyperpreterism”.
Todd says:
It is a sad but common tendency of full preterists to treat the view as the gospel. In fact, Don Preston often refers to “the gospel truth of Covenant Eschatology”. Now, it is one thing to be confident that your personal theology is correct, but there seems to be a point where such statements cross a line.
For instance, it is commonly declared in articles and discussions that full preterism is based upon the Word of God ; therefore, if you don’t agree with that view then you don’t agree with the Word of God. Likewise, it is commonly stated that Jesus taught full preterism ; therefore, if that view is incorrect then Jesus is a liar. There are many such comments - so many in fact that those who leave full preterism often go to atheism, no doubt have been convinced of the truth of those statements.
But perhaps the most serious question Todd asks is:
IS FULL PRETERISM JUST A THEOLOGICAL ALTERNATIVE… OR IS IT SOME FORM OF CULT?
He follows that question with the comments:
This may seem like an incendiary question, but it is a legitimate one. After all, there are such things as dangerous cults, aren’t there?
To most hyperpreterists they are in denial that what they are espousing is a radical depature from historic Christianity let alone hyperpreterism being a cult. To most hyperpreterists, Christians who question them & their conclusions are merely “heretic hunters”, but beliefs have consequences whether those beliefs cause a person to smash planes into sides of buildings or if those beliefs cause a person to lead people away as if they were leading away “silly women”. (2 Tim 3:6)
Todd concludes with these very revealing comments:
I must admit, it took me two years of being out of the group before such thoughts even crossed my mind. But the cruel barrage against those who left the view and - heaven forbid - had anything critical to say about it after leaving has been relentless. I have honestly never seen anything like it in my life… how quickly people can be seen as bitter enemies for simply talking about how the Holy Spirit has led them in a different direction. The smears and insults against very sincere people - and the methods employed to silence them - has forced me to rethink the level of danger in joining up with this full preterist splinter group.
How true & again, let’s keep ratio in mind. Why is it that this kind of behavior affects & infects hyperpreterism more than probably any other group? Because hyperpreterism has as its main premise an arrogant hubris that MUST believe that there has been a 2000 year conspiracy.
I hope people thinking about or just entering the hyperpreterist movement consider what Todd is saying — afterall many of the current hyperpreterists cut their heretical teeth on the material Todd put together & now he is one of the most vocal ones sounding the alarm against it. Unless a person is operating completely from Proverbs 26:12, they should consider what they are doing.
The link to Todd’s chronicle is: http://preteristarchive.com/Hyper/regressive.html
*image is an inside joke.
I have to admit that I am still very unclear on exactly where Todd is now theologically, but I am glad it is not hyperpreterism. His site was quite influential to being people into that mindset and hopefully now it will be quite as influential in getting them out. It was his site that was how I briefly became one myself.
Heya Rod,
Thanks for the post! I do think it IS AMAZING how the Holy Spirit used PreteristArchive.com to bring Full Preterism to the theological table only to then refute it! I feel for those still stuck in the vortex of full preterism, but expect for them to be led into the recognition of the failures of hyper preterism just as you and I have. Full Preterism is cool for a season, but after a while the shortcomings of declaring the shadow to be the substance becomes apparent. I hold no grudge against you for taking a little longer than I had… just as I hold no grudge against those Full Preterists today who read this thinking they know what the Bible teaches about prophecy, when they only really see the shadows and typology pointing to Jesus Christ alone. At some point, I know that they will see the proper hermeneutic, just as you and I have. Im sure that if we had both been Jewish it would have taken less time, but ptl for showing Gentiles the “schoolmaster” usage of Israel too, amen!?
Thanks again!
todd
And yet you speak with equivilant certainty that the opposite is true, going so far as to call it a cult and those that believe it “not Christians” and “not brothers and sisters in Christ.” You guys are amazing…
While I do not believe either to be true, it is functionally equivilant to say “If you do not believe this you are not a Christian” and “If you believe this you are not a Christian.” I have not heard anyone say the former, although you imply that their certainty says as much. Yet you say the latter explicitly. The logic boggles…
Ray
Funny, a Mormon just said the same thing on TheologyWeb. Nice logic there Ray. Not! BTW, you pull the crap you did on your last post that I deleted, and you will perma-banned.
Hey I am waiting for you to take it up with David Green.
Todd, thanks for the great comments. Bringing hyperpreterism to a fever pitch & then dropping the facade is certainly awesome work of the Holy Spirit. It almost reminds me of how the Judaic system was at its pinnacle, thinking that the Messiah was about to come at any moment & at the very moment they thought they were going to be on top & destroy the “Gentile dogs” & usher in the Messianic Rule — Jesus exposed the whole thing for what it was. The lost their Temple. They lost their city. They lost their nation.
You are right about hyperpreterism being cool for a season — it is like someone moving into a house beyond/hyper their means, it’s really cool at first but once the bills come due & reality sets in they will find themselves in trouble & in need of a spiritual bail-out plan.
Thanks for forgiving me for being so harsh with you while I was a hyperpreterist. You are so optimistic for the recovery of those duped by this cult. I will pray about it but certainly the prayers must first be that humility comes since it was arrogance that got people into hyperpreterism & it is arrogance that holds them there. Some do not come out but by much prayer & fasting.
Heya Rod,
Good analogy with the mortgage issue.
I should have written that Hyper Preterism *seems* cool for a season. Like other addictions, the initial phase of AD70-HyP can seem illuminatingly glorious, only to then yield sometimes devastating diminishing returns.
Sadly, for many “true believers” in unbiblical heresies, no amount of losses — be it friends, family, churches, husbands, wives, children, or personal peace — are taken as evidence that some form of disorder has developed. Rather, prosecution is routinely redefined as persecution in order to protect the delusion! I’m sure we’ve both been there to some extent.
Thankfully, there is a long record of former full preterists waking up and seeing reality outside of the druggy haze of the “AD70 filter”. In fact, the earliest known full preterists later acknowledged the error of their previous beliefs.
Actually, it is very difficult to find someone who has held full preterism until the end of their days in this world. The only one who comes to mind quickly is David Chilton… although he doesn’t seem to qualify as a full preterist, seeing as how he continued to anticipate natural fulfillment of Isaiah 65 and other passages in the future as part of the earthly “paradise mandate”.
Anyway, thanks again. The recent discussions seem to have motivated some ministers to more forcefully oppose the hyper preterist gangrene semi-secretly spreading in their assemblies.
blessings to all readers in the Name of our Coming Lord!
Well,
When Roderick and Todd get done patting themselves on the back tor exposing this preterism heresy, maybe they can direct us to links that now explain their current theology understanding of the “end times.”
Just click on my name, Kurt.. its right there. My reason for leaving hyper preterism was 100% exegetical, by the way. I’m sure the same is true of others, but I will only speak for myself. If you would like to take a really close look at the scriptures hyper preterists use to point to AD70, I will show you how they (and AD70) all point to Jesus Christ — who is self-identified as the telos and the eschatos seven times in the book of Revelation alone. My email address is there as well.
blessings!
todd
p.s. it is a source of GREAT congratulations to be freed from the chains of error, don’t you think?
Todd,
It would be refreshing to see an exegetical case against preterism. To date all I have seen has been a lot of smoke generated by the clashing of personalities.
Roderick,
I’m stilling waiting for your “exegetical” case. Forgive me if you have exegeted it somewhere and I missed it. All I’ve seen for your reasons so far is the “proof” of the character of the Preterist leaders and your rejection “that there has been a 2000 year conspiracy” because you can’t fathom, if it WAS true, why God would allow this view of eschatology to be hidden all this time.
Oh, and thanks Roderick, for calling off the dog(s). :>)
Huh? Calling off what dogs?
Anyhow, Kurt, there is a specific reason I haven’t yet explained what “I believe” since I am more concerned about what “we believe” — we being those same Christians who have believed in unison the same things for yes…2000 years.
Hyperpreterism can’t claim “Sola Scriptura” unless they think the Bible just fell from the sky, or perhaps they like the Mormons think some guy found golden plates in a cave or like the Muslims claim an angel came to “recite” it to one man?
Christ hand-picked apostles to be the foundation of ONE BODY, a “communion of saints” — not a go-it-alone, private interpreter who thinks he & he alone is correct while 2000 years of Christians were supposedly all duped.
Kurt, you’ve been reading too much “Pagan Christianity” & other Frank Viola stuff.
And you, Roderick, are begging the question. All you are doing is pointing to the tradition of men since the canon has closed from the time of the Apostles. There are no Scriptures from subsequent “church fathers” unless you have found something? If so, please share it and enlighten us.
Utter nonsense. Hyperpreterists pretend all the time as if there has never been any exegetical refutation of their cultic fantasies. What they really mean is that there are none that they agree with; thus loading the dice and insisting you role their numbers.
To the interested reader:
http://www.preteristsite.com/contrahym.html
Has dozens of articles and books with exegetical refutations. Frankly is a LIE to claim otherwise. Additionally:
http://www.preteristsite.com/deedeewarren.html
Also contains many exegetical refutations. I am not writing this for Kurt’s benefit for he is already aware of that material yet still makes his false statements. I am writing this for the reader who has not seen the wolfish nature of hyperpreterism for what it is. Kurt’s protestations are worth no more than a JW claiming there is no exegetical proof for the Trinity.
From one Reformed Presbyterian to another, Roderick, venomous hysterical statements were a warning sign with our last group. I hope you aren’t jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Looking forward to your reasoned, exegeted argument that goes beyond the creedal/confession stage in the spirit of semper reformanda.
Roderick,
Oh my, my friend. Where have we seen the likes of this before, albeit not to this steroidal level?
“The rest of the gang, particular the ones that have been posting here are liars. You show them more leeway than I do, because I won’t allow them on my comments. I think that is what Kurt meant by calling the dogs off. He is trying to play the divide and conquer game again not realizing that you and I pretty much have freedom over our own posts and what we allow in our own comments and that we don’t agree on everything…..Distortions and lies, the hyperpreterist way.”
[...] was introduced in a previous article (see here), Todd Dennis was intrumental in the online promotion of hyperpreterism. It was Dennis’ [...]