Eye for an Eye Irony
Filed Under (Roderick's Posts, cults/cultic, harassment, history, hyperpreterism) by Roderick_E on 31-01-2009
Tagged Under : antinomianism, hyperpreterism
There has been a fairly large behind the scenes battle going on between the hyperpreterists & the former-hyperpreterists. In this battle, the hyperpreterists are doing as they are often known to do…attacking the PERSON & claiming they are justified in doing so because they claim they are just doing what has been done to them. There is a strange irony that a group that claims “the Law has been done away with” (often even for those who have not professed Christ), would employ a sort of “eye for an eye” tactic. But the real problem is that it ISN’T an “eye for an eye”.
As far as I know, no former-hyperpreterist has EVER spoken about a hyperpreterist’s PERSON. By that I mean, you never see us talking about if their ears are too big, or if they have a goatee (yes a hyperpreterist insults me over my goatee), or calling them “lesbian house wives”, or saying they need to be on medication (as they constantly say about us), or sending out pictures depicting them as the Whore of Babylon from Revelation 17-18. All these things, hyperpreterists are known to do toward either those former-hyperpreterists who won’t go away quietly or toward those who have had an apologetics ministry against hyperpreterism, such as Dee Dee.
BUT… WE DO talk about the erroneous doctrines of the hyperpreterists. We DO talk about their evidential egos, their evidential lies, their evidential corrupt actions, & their evidential contrary & divisive statements. “Evidential” meaning we have evidence. We source link & document these things so that others can see we are not just calling these hyperpreterists “idiots” or “boobs” (two favorite words of hyperpreterists).
We try to DEMONSTRATE via their OWN IN CONTEXT comments that either hyperpreterists are affected adversely by the corrupt antinomian/anti-authoritarian premises & conclusions of hyperpreterism OR that their corrupt antinomian/anti-authoritarian mindset affects their doctrine, thus allowing them to readily accept the lie of hyperpreterism.
The battle has reached a fever pitch & has drawn out some of the nastier hyperpreterists who have been trying to say Dee Dee & a former-hyperpreterist woman named Dorothy are “following” me. The reality is, Dee Dee prayed for me while I was STILL a hyperpreterist & she NEVER coddled me & fell for the typical hyperpreterist need to feel “validated”. My renouncement of hyperpreterism is due in part to Dee Dee’s caring yet NON-COMPROMISING approach. Secondly, I’m a GUEST-POSTER on a site OWNED & RAN BY DEE DEE. Thanks Dee Dee. I guess that means I’m “following” you eh? Maybe we should get matching leopard-skin boots to give the hyperpreterists something to REALLY talk about?
As for Dorothy, she was my friend BEFORE I left hyperpreterism & though it was difficult, I mainly just prayed for her & kept the same approach as Dee Dee had used with me. When one day Dorothy renounced hyperpreterism, I STILL maintained my distance — not because I didn’t want to praise God with her for freeing her from the anti-biblical & anti-historical cult that is hyperpreterism, but because I KNEW that the hyperpreterists would try to spin it as if I talked a “poor, poor gullible woman out of the ‘truth’ of hyperpreterism”. I waited for her to make her own stand without influence from me — YET STILL the hyperpreterists — her former “friends” none-the-less ARE portraying this godly woman as a mere “follower” of Roderick, saying she has become a “backstabbing, mean spirited, hateful person” all to “keep Roderick happy”.
Women, even hyperpreterist women should be insulted & offended by this UFC-like thuggery. These supposed “men” of hyperpreterism think these women are too dumb to on their own come to the conclusion that hyperpreterism is wrong. Rather, I’ve known Dee Dee & Dorothy to be modern day “Priscillas & Lydias”.
The battle goes even deeper & more sinister as the hyperpreterist “men” attempt to hit me by hitting Dee Dee & Dorothy — or do they want to just say they are attacking Dee Dee & Dorothy themselves? Either way, are these the actions of REAL MEN? Their wives should be ashamed of them regardless of their hyperpreterism.
Now, the hyperpreterists claim they are just doing what has been done to them. Again, please show us where we maintain anonymous websites of out of context, non-sourced “quotes”. Show us where we have depicted any of them as “whores” or called any of them “homosexual househusbands”.
Do we PRIVATELY ask seminaries why they would employ a hyperpreterist on theological course work? YES. Is that wrong? No. Even if by asking that question, the hyperpreterist might be fired from influencing young, new Christians. We Christians are SUPPOSED to “expose the unfruitful works of darkness” (Eph 5:11) I’d say allowing a hyperpreterist to work at a Christian seminary doing anymore than janitorial work is a pretty “dark” thing since I know I’d be upset if I was a student & found out say, a Mormon was writing my course work & the seminary didn’t tell me. So, YES — it is completely honest & legitimate to expose such a thing.
Do we PUBLICLY warn unsuspecting Christians that a hyperpreterist is in their midst? YES. Is it “stalking” to simply point out to a PUBLIC forum that, “Hey, this person is a hyperpreterist & is teaching XYZ?”. No. “stalking” is when hyperpreterists set up a website, gathered all sorts of personal information on Dee Dee including a map to her home & encouraged someone to go & “shut her up”. Yes, they ACTUALLY did this — listen to Dee Dee’s candid podcast about it here.
Do we ridicule the pompous egos of the main leaders of hyperpreterism? YES INDEED. Paul for instance SARCASTICALLY ridiculed the so-called “super-apostles” of his day who thought they were all the rage (see 2 Corinthians 11:4-6 & 2 Corinthians 12:10-12). We tweak the egos of SOME of these “super-apostles” with their “man-crushes” on their various “leaders” & fellow “leaders” because it either causes them to show their true nature or perhaps they will be shamed & humbled…I doubt it. We do this because we KNOW their theology & their character is interconnected — remember, we used to be hyperpreterists. We KNOW that either their antinomian/anti-authoritarian/rabid individualistic mindset lends to their acceptance of the heresy of hyperpreterism which has as its over-arching premise a disdain for historic Christianity, or that their hyperpreterism engenders an antinomian/anti-authoritarian/rabid individualistic mindset — these things go hand & hand. See one element & you will see the other if they ever cross paths. This is the reason, hyperpreterists claim that what we are doing is only causing their movement to grow — if it is growing it is because more & more antinomian/anti-authoritarian/rabid individualistic mindset people are finding a home within hyperpreterism. That’s fine with me. The Bible says,
1 Corinthians 11:19
For there must also be factions (heresies) among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.
The darkness of a heresy like hyperpreterism merely contrast the bright shine of the Light of the World — Christ Jesus & the community of the saints — the historic Christian Church. Let the hyperpreterists pool on their little websites, patting each other on the back for supposedly making some pretext/proof-text “argument” by twisting Scripture & ignoring 2000 years of Christian interpretation. It will be easier to simply point people to them & say, THAT IS WHAT UNFRUITFUL WORKS OF DARKNESS look like (Eph 5:11).
Lastly, during this recent battle some of the lesser vocal hyperpreterists have been trying to get into the picture. One hyperpreterist fellow even said this about us (not just me):
“Some people are not even critics, they are just looking for as much time and attention as they can get. They will shape shift and follow the argument of the month if it keeps them in the spotlight. They stab friends in the back at a whim.” (source)
Really? What “attention” are we looking for? Do you think we enjoy being called insane? Do you think we enjoy people talking about our PERSONS? Do you think we enjoy being depicted as “whores” or as duped, dumb women? As for spotlight, who is it that is bragging about the “growth” of their site & movement? And as for stabbing “friends” in the back, have you seen what has been done to Dorothy? The truth is, this hyperpreterist fellow is a drive-by. He DOESN’T interact day-to-day with this stuff & comes upon it & makes a judgment call without EVIDENTIAL knowledge. But I’m sure he feels justified as do the hyperpreterists when they think they are paying an “eye for an eye” in their ironic, inconsistent, inaccurate depiction of the situation.





Thank you Roderick for the post. One thing I would like to offer a clarification on, and I am very glad to be able to do so. Last night, Dr. Talbot and I had a very pleasurable conversation, and he explained to me exactly what Samuel’s role was. It was extremely limited, and though I personally would not agree with having a hyperpreterist do even that, it was not the way Samuel has led people to believe - at least me. Samuel certainly has not gone out of his way to explain the minor nature of his work. So while I would have a hyperpreterist have any part, I tend to look at a bit like using Thayer’s lexicon. Thayer denied the deity of Christ but his lexicon is excellent. I was assured that Samuel in no way had any means of contact with the students and he wasn’t the sole arbiter of anything. Again, I explained to Dr. Talbot that was not my impression,and I am very glad that has been cleared up. In my experiences with Samuel, he has made out his involvement with Whitefield to be much more than it in reality was. I told Dr. Talbot that I am not the kind to keep link databases on people, so I could not point to a specific link, but if I found one, I would share it. I can only say the impression I was led to, and when Samuel saw that a great deal was being made out of this, the burden was on Samuel to come right up front and explain that his role was very minor.
The rest of my conversation with Dr. Talbot consisted of having a delightful discussion on our views of eschatology and we were both very pleasantly surprised to find that we hold nearly identical views! And I am going to take him up on his very kind offer of seminary schooling. We are going to be working out the details. I need to order transcripts and get him some other information.
I did explain to Dr. Talbot that I routinely write to organizations that may unbeknownst have a hyperpreterist in their midst, usually it is radio stations that are unwittingly hosting a hyperpreterist show. I was successful in getting one pulled off the air in South Florida.
I don’t care to be in the spotlight. Being in the spotlight has cost me dearly. My health has never been the same, and I am convinced that part of the depressive disorder I have was permanently exacerbated by the actions of a few years ago. In fact a doctor who was dealing with me described my feelings as that of post-traumatic stress disorder. They are squarely to blame for that. However, God is a God of healing, and this past year, tremendous chains of bondage have been lifted and healing started.
The incipient misogynism of these men should alarm their wives. And I am not talking about a conservative belief in the role of men and women. I am no egalatarian. I firmly believe that the elders and teaching pastorate must be male. When there is a controversy or dispute, one of my first moves is to bring in a spiritually mature male into the discussion.
I am by no means claiming perfection or a lack of need to grow. But never have I done what these people have done. They seem to have such a seared conscience that they just can’t see the line that should never be crossed. Even 99.9% of the atheists I deal with know that line.
Oh I would add, I completely do not believe their bragging that something we are saying is causing their movement to grow. The emails I receive prove otherwise. There is many a precious soul that almost became entangled until providentally they ran into my work. It is an empty brag, and an insecure person that has to make such a brag.
I have no idea how “large” of an impact I am having. Affecting just one person is enough for me. The work and the credit are not ours, they are the Lord’s. If God uses me, wonderful - but that is at His pleasure, and His pleasure alone.
At least to me, seeking and bragging about numbers is a carnal thing. That is why I don’t track the number of hits any of my personal sites receive. I have no idea how many downloads my podcast gets. I am not doing it for that purpose. The only time I have to concern myself with that is to make sure that I am paying a fair share of server costs, and my partners let me know that.
About Dr. Talbot’s clarification, thanks for sharing that. I agree that a hyperpreterist should have no influence on a Christian seminary’s curriculum & that Sam is KNOWN to puff up himself more than is the case (such as how even recently when Gary DeMar’s son, James joined their hyperpreterist site — the first thing Sam said to him was to remind James that Sam once shared a room with Gary — UGH!!!). So, yes I can believe Dr. Talbot’s clarification of Sam’s involvement with WTS.
I’m glad you are going to take Dr. Talbot up on his offer for a degree there. I’d really like to see you used to expose hyperpreterism even on a seminary level & especially at the seminary Sam has used to “validate” his wrong doctrine.
As for the hyperpreterists bragging about their growth & numbers — either way, they are conquered already — because they are being consumed more & more by the liberal antinomian/anti-authoritarian/rabid individuals (even if they are trying to ban such individuals from their little refuge), OR they are dwindling & these erratic convulsions & compromises we’ve been seeing are simply signs of the death rattle of hyperpreterism.
More hyperpreterist attacking spam that it was my pleasure to delete. For those of you sending your hateful messages to Roderick even though you know they will be deleted, I hate to disappoint you, but I am the one who handles the spam. He doesn’t. You might as well spit into the wind because you are not reaching your intended target. And each time, I enter your IPs into the auto-reject list so I don’t even see them either.
Sam Frost on his reclusive hyperpreterist, back-slapping, playground recently wondered why some of his members are secretly sharing inside information against his little club:
Well, if people from SGP will do what they have done to people like Dee Dee, Todd, Dorothy, Phil, myself & others — I don’t blame the whistleblowers hiding their identity from the likes of Sam Frost & his club of arrogants.
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